1984.002.002 Oral History Interview with Cliff Law

 

Cliff Law grew up in the town of Hastings in Upstate New York and later moved to New York Chinatown in the late 1930s. His father, Harry Law, owned a foundry that manufactured laundry equipment in nearby Kingston and a hardware store in Chinatown at 11-13 Doyers Street (likely Excelsior Laundry Machines Co.). The oral history interview begins with Cliff recalling memories of Doyers Street, as well as discussing the history of 11-13 Doyers Street, the building his father purchased after a fire in 1934/35. The two-story building, which housed his father’s hardware store, a Chinese arcade and Nom Wah Tea Parlor downstairs and an apartment in which Cliff grew up upstairs, was located in a corner called the Bloody Angle, so-called because this was where the Hip Sing and On Leong tongs often fought. In the interview, Cliff shares details about his father’s life, including that he came to work on the railroads in the 1880s when he was 17 or 18 years old, that he saved and moved to New York and for a while worked as an interpreter in Westchester County, that he lost his first wife, who was caucasian, in the flu epidemic of 1918, and that he divided his time between tending his foundry and hardware store and traveling around the country to sell and install laundry equipment in Chinese laundries. Cliff also talks about growing up in Hastings, visiting Chinatown every Sunday with his family, then moving there to live when he was in fourth grade. While living in Chinatown, Cliff went to PS 23 and Chinese school, attended the Presbyterian Church on 33rd Street and True Light Church/Mission regularly, and was an active member of the Cub Scouts as well as the first air scouts squadron organized in Chinatown during World War II.

0:00 - Identified Dr. Herbert Kee in a photograph, father purchased the building of the Mandarin Tea House after a fire in 1934/35, father had a hardware store in the 1920s in back of the Chinese arcade, rented the downstairs to Nom Wah, Cliff grew up in upstairs apartment, corner known as the Bloody Angle, father neither Hip Sing nor On Leong, but this was where they fought because the arcade had a direct connection to Mott Street, father sold business and retired in 1947, fire in 1934/35 and 1938/39

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6:05 - Curio shop owner Lily Chu would have stories, her husband used to have a pharmacy on Mott, their kids were Roy and June (?) Chu, Cliff now age 55, Lily still lives above shop, building torn down just before the war, grew up across the street from Roy and June, Chinese theater became Tom Newman’s rescue society mission, Mandarin Tea Garden used to be a church in the 1920s, Trust in God Church on Pell, Reverend Steven Fong was a good friend of the family, congregation were people from Xin Hui

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12:21 - Other memories of Doyers Street, the Tuxedo Restaurant, where parents had wedding banquet, has photos, 456 there now, the Oriental Restaurant, in 1940s Wesley Lau opened auto garage on Baxter off Bayard, was an old-timer who spoke English without an accent, father also spoke without accent, grew up in town of Hastings until age 9 then moved back to Chinatown, father had foundry in Kingston, father would divide time between foundry and store and also go out on the road to sell

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16:43 - Father’s first wife was caucasian, Cliff was child of second wife, married first wife in 1915 but died in flu epidemic after WWI, father came in 1880s to work on railroads, saved and came to New York where had relatives, was 17 or 18, was an interpreter for Westchester County, never talked of first wife, assumes father got into laundry equipment business because of hardware store, progression from selling to manufacturing them, commuted from home in suburbs to New York City

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20:15 - Memories of Hastings, lived in a big house, rented out upstairs, father not home much since he was a traveling salesman, every Sunday the family went to Chinatown, went to public school up to fourth grade, went to church, street had many churches, few people had cars then, father had a car, this was back in the 1930s, traveled with father for work, laundry customers all Chinese, traveled to Philadelphia, down South, Boston, etc., family went to Roanoke VA as vacation trip and to set up machine

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23:44 - What it was like to visit Chinatown back when in Hastings, uncles and aunts would come to the store and bring dinner, went back upstate after dinner, later moved to Chinatown, quite different environment, was used to having caucasian playmates, went to Presbyterian church at 33rd Street, then went to True Light Church, sent to Chinese school, this is how he met his friends, was taller than typical Chinese students and teachers, went to P.S. 23

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28:36 - What he did in his spare time, Columbus Park was Italian turf, Chinese played in park near Manhattan Bridge, Transfiguration Church was 99 percent Italian, there were quite a few churches in Chinatown, he went to True Light, Mabel Lee’s church on Pell, Presbyterian Church on 33rd Street was mostly Chinese, Reverend Young Kai Jung, church had bowling alley and Sunday school, Virginia Kee was a member, went to church because father told him to go, father may have been baptized but never went

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33:49 - Father named Harry Law (Lau), Norman Lau Kee not related just same name, True Light was a mission at the time, was part of Lutheran congregation uptown, the Chinese community subsidized the pastor, church is now on Worth Street but back then at corner of Canal and Mulberry, Mary Banta was the missionary sent to work with Chinese, his memories of her, Pastor Ernest Clinch, Banta did not speak Chinese, mission tried to get people to go to church, church on Worth Street was built in the 1950s

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38:45 - Banta did lots of good deeds to help people, some of the better students used Banta’s address to go to better girls high school (Washington Irving vs. Junior Richmond), there were not many Chinese families in Chinatown at that time, most had fathers who were merchants

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41:48 - P.S. 23 class maybe half Chinese at the time Cliff attended (graduated January of 1942), older students were from China, P.S. 23 had English classes for them, photo was from 8th grade, could graduate in half year in January or June, each grade had three tracks, tracks segregated Chinese from Italians, Cliff skipped a grade because P.S. 23 had a fire in 1940/41, as consequence had to double up some classes, if you had a certain average it was not unusual for them to have you skip a grade

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46:22 - Italian and Chinese students did not talk to each other, he did have Italian friends, went to Chinese school afterwards for three hours, had periods and recess, went to Chinese school half-day on Saturdays from 8-12, then played with friends, made most of friends in Cub Scouts, Sam Fung writing a book on Chinese Boy Scouts, there were 50 or 60 Cub Scouts,Troop 150 had a marching band, some of scouts went to fight in WWII, had succession of scout masters, scout master Joe Mas

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51:41 - Boy and Cub Scouts in Chinatown, Troop 150, at least 300 all-Chinese members, joined Cub Scouts in 1939/40, when got to Boy Scouts the war had started, scouts were at the age of being drafted, shortage of scout masters, scout master Keith Alver, Hollis Eng was first Chinese scout master, Eng got drafted, died in Normandy, scout troop went to where he was buried as a memorial, troop taken over by True Light, Pastor Coach was scout master, father retired in 1947/48 then Cliff left Chinatown

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55:07 - What activities the Boy Scouts did, first air scouts squadron organized in Chinatown during the war, joined for aeronautics, started learning about airplanes etc., members did not go on to become pilots, Alan Wen Moody Chin Ronny Chin and himself were air scouts, had a marching band, invited to play at war bond rallies by American groups, did not play much at rallies in Chinatown, band paraded at flag ceremonies in honor of soldiers from a neighborhood, was actually a drum and bugle corps

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59:07 - Does not have a lot of photos of time in Chinatown, father was a photographer, has lots of photos of father, father was a manufacturer with close ties to caucasians in same line of work, knew John Randles, father stockpiled replacement parts for laundry equipment during WWII, machinery in a Chinese laundry, disagrees that Chinese laundrymen were discriminated against and not sold laundry equipment, his own lack of experience with discrimination, followed dad around as he sold laundry equipment

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65:27 - Father was not the only Chinese to sell/manufacture laundry equipment, had competitors such as United Fletcher, another manufacturer of laundry machines had a factory in Chinatown next to father’s building, manufacturer named Wong I. Gong, company named Wong Wen Gee, owner named Ma Gong, spoke fluent English, John Randles company named Ai Jai Gong (midget) in Chinese, was one of father’s competitors who sold mainly to Chinese, father was selling laundry machines since the 1920s

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69:22 - Wong’s factory was there until 1950s and first opened in 1920s, manufactured the collar roller machine (ironed shirt collars and cuffs), his father also manufactured pressing machines (operated by foot and heated by gas), describes how roller machine worked, his impressions of laundrymen’s lives from contact with them, some families lived in the back of laundry, not until 1950s did laundrymen manage to accumulate any kind of wealth, good times up until advent of wash and wear, all cash economy

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75:15 - People would go to Chinatown on Sunday, only two dim sum places, had lots of restaurants, most laundrymen were single, lived in single-room apartments, gongsi fang (company rooms), would come to visit father’s store, were mostly from father’s village, Chinese New Year celebrations at store and in Chinatown, father’s Chinese friends in Alabama and Arkansas owned grocery stores, lost contact when father died, mother died in 1944, moved upstate, father held onto building in Chinatown, sold in 1957

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